I’m asking too many questions. sorry, anoop & co.

I have read the Rapid Fat-Loss Handbook by Lyle Mcdonald, a very interesting read and it seems to be all backed by sound, scientific thought.

I feel I need a second opinion, however.
I am wondering about its efficacy (as opposed to the more moderate diet, which Lyle does advocate in order to retrain eating habits) and its utility in fat loss keeping in mind minimal muscle loss

thanks in advance.

I think Lyle has cleary stated that Rapid Fat-Loss method is not the best for loosing fat while maintain mass.
It’s more suitable for crash loosing fat course while not pay too much attention to how big will be mass lost.
The UD2 diet is much better if you want to do it gradually, without to much stress.

I have read the Rapid Fat-Loss Handbook by Lyle Mcdonald, a very interesting read and it seems to be all backed by sound, scientific thought.

I feel I need a second opinion, however.
I am wondering about its efficacy (as opposed to the more moderate diet, which Lyle does advocate in order to retrain eating habits) and its utility in fat loss keeping in mind minimal muscle loss

PSMF is usually called VLCD or Very Low Calorie Diets and has been prescribed by dietitians for years. The only modification Lyle added was the fish oils. These were mainly for people who are obese and moderate calorie approach didn’t work. Research has shown that after 6 months or a year, there is no difference in the the weight lost by PSMF and a moderate deficit diets. SO it gives you a jump start, that’s all.

How much do you weigh? Stick with moderate diet with a small deficit and you should be fine. As anatoly said, PSMF and weight workout, or any exercise for that matter, do not go so well together

is jumpstarting a moderate diet (with a small deficit) with a short round of the PSMF (2 weeks or less) a bad idea? I get refeeds every week still, given.
even then would I be compromising muscle mass with such a short time frame?

How much you lose on a PSMF really depends on what weight you start. And most of the weight loss in the beginning will be water weight anyway.

Try it and see. Unless you are competing or anything, you don’t have to really bother too much about losing all that muscle.

It’s a protein sparing modified fast.  The muscle loss on Lyle’s plan is minimal at worst.  I’ve done it few times (as a lean individual) and never lost strength or any noticable amount of muscle.

It’s a protein sparing modified fast.  The muscle loss on Lyle’s plan is minimal at worst.  I’ve done it few times (as a lean individual) and never lost strength or any noticable amount of muscle.

Though the name is protein sparing, there is no guarantee you will hold onto all your muscle. Anytime when you go for such large deficits, you will have some appreciable muscle loss. You probably can minimize it a bit by having high protein and doing weight training. But muscle loss is inevitable, atleast for most people.

PSMF is not the best diet for lean people.

anoopbal - 26 February 2010 03:18 AM

It’s a protein sparing modified fast.  The muscle loss on Lyle’s plan is minimal at worst.  I’ve done it few times (as a lean individual) and never lost strength or any noticable amount of muscle.

Though the name is protein sparing, there is no guarantee you will hold onto all your muscle. Anytime when you go for such large deficits, you will have some appreciable muscle loss. You probably can minimize it a bit by having high protein and doing weight training. But muscle loss is inevitable, atleast for most people.

PSMF is not the best diet for lean people.

There’s no guarentee you will hold on to all your muscle dieting in a more moderate fashion either. In face I’ll say you wont…. Getting 100% muscle gain or 100% fat loss is not a reality.  I agree overall that it may not be the best diet in most circumstances….but disagree that it is not good for lean people. 

It’s 11 days long for a lean individual.  Not excatly extreme.  I personally use it to strip fat away quickly to get back to mass gaining phases, and have never had an issue with and % of muscle loss that made it not worth doing.

I agree overall that it may not be the best diet in most circumstances….but disagree that it is not good for lean people

That most circumstances include lean. And that’s the very reason Lyle has another diet called UD2 diet which one of the best out there to hold onto muscle & still lower fat and himself reccomends it for people who are around or below 13-14%.

It’s 11 days long for a lean individual.  Not excatly extreme.  I personally use it to strip fat away quickly to get back to mass gaining phases, and have never had an issue with and % of muscle loss that made it not worth doing

I am talking about a PSMF diet which is generally for 6 weeks or so. I just cannot comment on the 11 day or the 17 day variations of PSMF that people come up with. What research has clearly shown is greater the deficit, greater the muscle loss in obese and overweight people. And the results can only get worse with lean individuals.

And I dont think anyone has looked at 11 days or one or two weeks to see if you can minimize muscle loss further.

The PSMF layed out in Lyle’s book gives time durations depending on BF%.  Lean people fall in category 1 and the duration of the diet is 11 days with a structured refeed to follow.

I’m not trying to argue with you here, but if lean people were at a real risk of losing appreciable muscle mass….Lyle would not have included them in the book and there wouldn’t be such a high success rate of lean people using the diet. 

In my opinion UD2 is a better option when you are very lean. I know up to 15% is the reccomendation, but there are far easier ways to get down to a lower bodyfat without worrying too much about muscle loss. 

When you startgetting into or near single diget body fat, that’s when things get a little trickier and UD2 is going to be the best option.

I bought the book when he wrote it and i don’t remember most of the stuff and I don’t write as much as I used to in Lyle’ forum.

PSMF’s are generally for 6-8 weeks and the major problem is the lbm loss. I just replied based on that about PSMF not being the best for lean. You only talk about the 11 days after your first post. So I was just assuming you were on a regular PSMF.

And are you saying you do PSMF in cycles or do you do 11 days and then get back to a regular diet?

And honestly there is a lot of anecdotal talk in this industry and it gets hard to know who is right and who is not. But i am guilty of it too.

i like london broil. it tastes good.