I think this is a topic that has never been discussed around here..

When I say fancy supplements I mean stuff like this

Cell-volume maximizer blend
- Multi-vector creatine matrix: tricreatine malate, tricreatine orotate
- Pre-creatine factor matrix:betain (TMG: trimetilglicin), guanidinoacetic acid (glycocyamine)
- Multi-vector taurine matrix:taurine, taurine ethyl ester

Nitric oxide & vasodilation enhancers
- AAKG (arginine alpha ketoglutarate), arginine ethyl ester, AKIC (arginine ketoisocaproate)
- citrulline malate, citrulline malate ester
- nicotinic acid

Energizers & nootropic factors
- L-tyrosine, beta-alanine, citrulline malate, citrulline malate ester, methylxanthines (caffeine), niacin, evodiamine, vinpocetine

does any of this stuff actually works ? and if it works is it worth the money ?

Relative to heavy lifting, good nutrition, and rest - no, they don’t work.

And no, they’re definitely not worth the money (plain old Creatine Monohydrate blows them out of the water as an ergogenic aid, and is much more cost effective).

Cheers
Mav

Unless it is shown in research, they are just a waste of time. Most of them are advertised based on some biological mechanism which is yet to be established in humans or is too complex to make any sort conclusion either way.

These are unlike drugs which has to go through a series of studies, in fact three trials in humans, to get approved. So always be skeptical when it comes to supplements.

Anaconda.

what about creatine + arginine + beta alanine there are some studies who said that is works..

Creatine works for most people. no doubt about that. I’ve never seen anything indicating that arginine works in healthy humans.. though I’ve seen some promising research in patients with cardiovascular disease.

Beta-alanine seems to make you perform better in short term work (like 2-4 min, if it’s too short it might not work). It’s been shown to increase levels of carnosine, which is an intracellular buffer. I’ve seen one study on resistance exercise and beta-alanine (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18175046), which concluded that it didn’t work to increase adaptations. And I’ve seen one that compared creatine + beta-alanine, creatine alone and placebo (http://anabolicminds.com/forum/attachments/supplements/18068d1185888155-beta-alanine-creatine-6028-beta-alanine). That study found that the combined group had more lean mass gain than the others, but the individual responses to the supplements were very large. Also, when you look at strength adaptations the results were mixed. I’m a proponent of beta-alanine for 2-4 min stuff, but I don’t think RT, unless you use very high reps, is of long enough duration to really benefit.

Also, with supplements there’s a difference between performance enhancement and adaptation enhancement. Just because something enhances performance doesn’t mean it enhances your adaptations. You might think so as if you’re able to train harder then you should get better adaptations, but if the supplement works by decreasing the metabolic disturbance responsible for the adaptations then you might have to train harder to get the same effect on the supplement. Also, beware of studies that use groups with several supplements. If a study compares creatine + arginine + beta alanine to a placebo group, then you don’t know which of the 3 supplements had the effect.

Mumford - 02 August 2010 02:28 AM

Anaconda.

LOOL you talkin about thath sutff from t-nation ? hahah

thanks for the reply karky I will just stick with creatine.

and for curiosity what about supplements for fat loss ? like CLA, caffeine, yohimbine, green tea, L-carnitine, acetyl L-carnitine ? I think there are more research on this ones..

I’ve been thinking about reading up on research on fat loss supps. I think most of them just makes you less hungry, which means you eat less and lose weight, some of them makes your intestine less effective at absorbing different nutrients, making you lose weight.

Carnitine is something I’ve looked a bit into as it’s supposed to increase fat oxidation during exercise.. I haven’t found any studies using high intensity exercise, though, just stuff like walking, etc, where I think it worked, but then again, it’s not about fat oxidation it’s about being in a deficit. What I’m gonna look for when I read up on it are supps that can help shift the lean mass lost/fat mass lost ratio to optimal levels as all I need to actually start losing weight is to be in a deficit, which isn’t that hard.

Anoop also has an article on fat loss supps somewhere on the site I believe.

This one I guess: http://www.exercisebiology.com/index.php/site/articles/weight_loss_drugs_supplements_do_they_work_how/

Yohimbine, caffeine, ephedrine green tea are basically stimulants. You will lose fat through appetite suppression and increasing your metabolism if you take it in enough doses. Yohimbine has a slightly different mechanism of action.

Carnitine, CLA has still not proven to help you lose weight.

anoopbal - 04 August 2010 12:21 AM

This one I guess: http://www.exercisebiology.com/index.php/site/articles/weight_loss_drugs_supplements_do_they_work_how/

Yohimbine, caffeine, ephedrine green tea are basically stimulants. You will lose fat through appetite suppression and increasing your metabolism if you take it in enough doses. Yohimbine has a slightly different mechanism of action.

Carnitine, CLA has still not proven to help you lose weight.

what much mg of caffeine and green tea should I consume per day ?

I am thinking about buying this supplement
IDS 6Hour Tabs 90 servings
Ingredients per serving
Caffeine: 200 mg
Green Tea Extract: (90mg EGCG) 200 mg
Our Proprietary Blend: 100 mg:
-Guarana Seed
-Leaf Yerba Mate (antioxidant )
-White Willow Bark (may help other weight loss ingredients work more effectively ?)

Other Ingredients:
Dicalcium phosphate, cellulose Modifidada, Guar Gum, Calcium Carbonate, Vegetable stearin,
Stearic Acid, Magnesium Stearate, Silica,
Citrus pectin.

ephedrine and yohimbine are forbidden in my country, so caffeine and green tea are the only stimulants that I can go for..